Ich...

[Ellador]

Hello, all... I am new to this forum, and I wish that I had found it before now-- but I'm glad to have found it, all the same. ; )

I have been familiar with freshwater aquarium fish all of my life, and I no longer consider myself to be an amateur-- although, as we all know, fish teach us something new frequently-- unfortunately, we usually have to learn the hard way.

I first started keeping clown loaches about five years ago. After my initial freak-out about their resting habits, they quickly became my very favorite fish. (Luckily, a friend of mine suggested that I ask about their behavior-- he narrowly averted me deciding to euthanize my first two clowns for laying down on the gravel.) I lost those two clowns-- plus one more-- along with two rosy barbs and an african cichlid about two months ago, due to an awful incident that taught me a new word: back-siphoning. I'd had my oldest two loaches for five years-- and by some miracle, they got along wonderfully with my cichlid. Four rosy barbs survived-- I now call them my "super-barbs".

After I learned about back-siphoning the hard way, I did two water changes within one month-- and I had my water tested at the fish-store to be absolutely certain that my water was "fixed", which it was-- so I came home that day with three baby clown loaches and three baby cherry barbs. I have a 25 gallon tank-- I am planning to upgrade to a 55 gallon soon.

For about two weeks, everything was fine-- until I noticed the spots. I've dealt with ich before, using the heat method alone, so I wasn't too concerned. I raised the temperature slowly-- I normally keep it at 78-80 degrees-- it had reached 88 degrees F within 48 hours, and I saw no improvement after a few days-- in fact, their spots seemed more numerous than before. Even still, I left the temperature at 88 for over a week-- hoping for some improvement. By then, I figured that medication would kill them for sure-- because they were just babies (about an inch long), and the ich had weakened them already. I lost one of them a few days ago, and another the next day-- after the second one went, I decided to lower the temperature to normal-- slowly, of course. The temperature is at 84 degrees F currently-- and surprisingly, one clown loach is still alive. I haven't seen him very much, though-- he's been in hiding, hopefully recovering-- but the last time I saw him, yesterday, the dorsal (top) part of his caudal fin was entirely gone. I wasn't able to look closely enough to see if his spots were still present-- honestly, it was too painful for me to look at him any longer-- but his behavior seemed relatively normal. My four "super-barbs" (the rosy barbs) and my three cherry barbs have handled everything wonderfully-- they displayed some flashing for a few days at the beginning, but have been fine since.

My pH level is perfect (7.5) and my ammonia content is very low-- almost non-existent. I have an external filtration system without carbon-- I never have used carbon; I use ammonia inserts, instead-- my water level has been lowered the entire time that I've had the temperature raised, to have more back-splash from the filter. I also have an under-gravel filter-- again, no carbon-- so I have lots of aeration. I would very much appreciate any advice-- again, I have handled ich before with no problems-- maybe I am not dealing with ich this time, or maybe this is a heat-resistant strain that I've never encountered before.

Thank you all so very much.

[Diana]

It sounds like you have a good set up to raise the temperature all over the tank, including under the gravel to something higher than Ich can tolerate. I would hate to think you have the heat resistant one, but that is the way it is looking.

Usually the problem with getting the temperature over 86*F is the water under the substrate will stay cooler, and act as a breeding ground. Then fish that live at the bottom are easily reinfected. With a UGF the water is better circulated, so I would hope the bottom of the tank is above the critical temperature.

[Ellador]

Hi, Diana... thank you for your reply.

My last surviving clown died late last night. Throughout this entire ichy ordeal (pun intended), I kept trying to put the possibility of a heat-resistant strain out of my mind-- but, yes-- that had to have been it was... at one point, about a week ago, I put my thermometer down into the gravel and the temperature was 88 in there, too. (Until I read your post, it never occurred to me that this was because of my under-gravel filter.)

Stupid ich-- I hate that stuff. When I was a kid, my dad lost an oscar to ich-- my dad had kept fish ever since he came back from Vietnam, so he was not exactly an amateur either. I was very young when that happened, and I can remember my dad's frustration vividly. By the end, my dad was actually putting the medicine directly onto Juan-- and there was still no improvement whatsoever. (The Oscar's name was Juan. I named him-- my dad's joke was, "He's the only Juan in there-- and even if we had more fish, he'd still be the only Juan in there".) A few weeks after Juan died, my dad realized that the shiners (minnows) that he fed Juan as a "treat" were what had kept bringing in the ich. Daddy was very upset-- he still blames himself for that one.

I got sidetracked there... now that the d#@n ich has killed all of my clown loaches, my seven surviving fish-- four rosy barbs and three cherry barbs-- are not showing any signs of being infected. I know that it's more difficult to tell if "scaled" fish have ich-- but they are not breathing heavily, and they haven't been flashing at all in over a week. I want to get more clowns, but I am more than a little nervous. In less than two months, I've had terrible mass destruction because of back-siphoning and now that awful ich-- don't they say that bad luck comes in threes? Seriously though-- my thoughts are that I should do another water change soon, and then watch my barbs carefully for about a week after the water change. If I see any signs of ich, I should use the medication-- and if not, I can get more clowns. Oh-- my temperature is back to "normal" now-- 80 degrees F. Do you think that maybe I should treat for ich with medication "just in case", and then do another water change before I get more clowns, or would that do more harm than good?

Thank you, again-- it makes me very happy that this forum is here! ; )

[Diana]

I would rethink the stocking.

Rosy Barbs are cool water fish. Reduce the temperature by about 1-2*F (1*C) per day until the tank is in the low 70s. Cherry Barbs are OK in slightly warmer water.
Per Baensch: Cherry Barbs: 23-26*C, Rosy Barbs: 18-22*C.
Clown Loaches prefer much warmer water. (26-30*)
I would not mix these fish.

If a 55 gallon tank is your goal, and you want Loaches that are compatible with Cherry Barbs (rather small fish) and Rosy Barbs (Cool water fish) then I would look into the smaller Loaches like Zebras that can handle water in the low 70sF.

Clown Loaches can grow pretty fast (If you can treat them for the parasites they often bring with them) and can outgrow even a tank as large as a 55 the first year.
If you are willing to get a much larger tank so that a school of Clown Loaches will be happy, then look into other fish that prefer much warmer water, and that get larger than Cherry Barbs. There are a lot of Rainbow Fish that do well in warm, soft water. There are some Barbs and Tetras that get a bit larger and would work. For example, Congo Tetra, Clown Barb (P. everetti). For non-schooling tank mates look into Anostomus anostomus, Siamese Algae Eater, Gouramis (Moonlight, Pearl, Snakeskin).

Set aside a tank of about 10-20 gallons as a quarantine tank so that when you get new fish you can treat them as needed, and monitor them for at least a month before adding them to the main tank.