hi, I'm new to this forum and have a question for you all.
I have recently purchased a pair of young botia modesta to cure a problem I had with snails. They have done a wonderful job and I now no longer have the problem, but that's not what I want to ask.
The two botias are wonderful additions to my tanks, and are at present around 3" in length. They are in a 19 gallon tank with a small clown loach and a few live bearers and fry. As soon as my new 8' tank is ready, they will be moved into there as a permanent home, along with the two clowns, and some large goldfish.
Yesterday I was fascinated by the "dancing" they were doing. They were twisting around each other, spiraling up and down the tank, rubbing their bodies together and nudging each other. There was no aggression displayed and no sign of any injury to either fish.
The dance was very long and became quite intense, each time they separated they would go straight back to the spiraling and carry on. This went on for a couple of hours before I went to bed, and this morning they were still very close together, swimming side by side and feeding together.
Is this normal behavior for them, as I have never seen anything quite like it, and have kept various loaches over the years. As I would assume they are too young to be looking at breeding, it seems unlikely that it is a mating dance, and as they are not known to breed in aquaria, this seems even more unlikely.
The loaches are both fine, with no illness or disease that I can see. They are also not nocturnal and are more active than the clowns during the day.
Any ideas?
Botia modesta behaviour question
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Emma Turner
- Posts: 8901
- Joined: Wed Dec 28, 2005 5:07 pm
- Location: Peterborough, UK
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Hi timg, and welcome to Loaches Online. 
Unfortunately, your planned aquarium is far from ideal. Yasuhikotakia (Botia) modesta are a pretty feisty species and are not suitable for housing with more placid fish, including clown loaches. The aggression may not be so noticeable now, but it will heighten as they mature.
Both clown loaches and Y. modesta prefer much faster flowing water than goldfish, plus higher temperatures. Whichever species of Botiine loach you intend to keep, you need more than 2. They have complex social structures and a group of 5 would be considered the bare minimum.
With regards to the dancing behaviour that you described, this sounds a lot like what we refer to here as the Loachy Dance. This consists of fast swimming up and down at the corners of the tank, dive-bombing and some entwining. This can be a stress reaction, such as after recently being moved (and tends to settle down after a few days) and sometimes also an excited reaction (for instance just prior to feeding time, or when new fish of their own kind are added to the existing group).
Emma
Unfortunately, your planned aquarium is far from ideal. Yasuhikotakia (Botia) modesta are a pretty feisty species and are not suitable for housing with more placid fish, including clown loaches. The aggression may not be so noticeable now, but it will heighten as they mature.
Both clown loaches and Y. modesta prefer much faster flowing water than goldfish, plus higher temperatures. Whichever species of Botiine loach you intend to keep, you need more than 2. They have complex social structures and a group of 5 would be considered the bare minimum.
With regards to the dancing behaviour that you described, this sounds a lot like what we refer to here as the Loachy Dance. This consists of fast swimming up and down at the corners of the tank, dive-bombing and some entwining. This can be a stress reaction, such as after recently being moved (and tends to settle down after a few days) and sometimes also an excited reaction (for instance just prior to feeding time, or when new fish of their own kind are added to the existing group).
Emma
East of the Sun, West of the Moon.
glad I asked. I wasn't sure if the info I got from the shop was right, and you have confirmed my suspicions.
It isn't a problem though, since the 8' is only one of my tanks and the clowns can go into the other 62 gallon instead. The goldfish have proved to be exceptional in adapting and have been acclimatised to 27C already, so there shouldn't be any problem with that. the only thing that is potentially a problem is the number of botias I may need to keep.
The new tank has a capacity of around 150 gallons imperial and will be very well filtered. It is also going to have quite strong water movement supplied by an external pump that I have installed to run the aquaponics garden and water column which will be incorporated into the tank. I can take a feed directly from the splitter and run straight into the tank to create a fast flowing current at one end. incidentally, the goldfish don't seem to mind currents either, as I have a similar setup in the 62 gallon now. They tend to play in the current that runs into the water column and then find a quieter spot to rest afterwards.
The pumps I am using can move over 500 gallons per hour with ease, and can lift water over ten feet. The aquaponics needs only 15-20 gallons per hour, leaving loads of spare for the column and a jet to create the current you are talking about.
It isn't a problem though, since the 8' is only one of my tanks and the clowns can go into the other 62 gallon instead. The goldfish have proved to be exceptional in adapting and have been acclimatised to 27C already, so there shouldn't be any problem with that. the only thing that is potentially a problem is the number of botias I may need to keep.
The new tank has a capacity of around 150 gallons imperial and will be very well filtered. It is also going to have quite strong water movement supplied by an external pump that I have installed to run the aquaponics garden and water column which will be incorporated into the tank. I can take a feed directly from the splitter and run straight into the tank to create a fast flowing current at one end. incidentally, the goldfish don't seem to mind currents either, as I have a similar setup in the 62 gallon now. They tend to play in the current that runs into the water column and then find a quieter spot to rest afterwards.
The pumps I am using can move over 500 gallons per hour with ease, and can lift water over ten feet. The aquaponics needs only 15-20 gallons per hour, leaving loads of spare for the column and a jet to create the current you are talking about.
BTW... the new tank should be up and running within a couple of weeks, so that would be a good time to get some more botias. The strong filtration on the tank should allow for a little extra capacity, but they're still 12 months away from any problems due to size.
I have another question for you Emma: Where did you get the bamboos that you have in your display tanks? they look so neat, I wouldn't mind getting hold of a couple of them myself for mine!
I have another question for you Emma: Where did you get the bamboos that you have in your display tanks? they look so neat, I wouldn't mind getting hold of a couple of them myself for mine!
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Emma Turner
- Posts: 8901
- Joined: Wed Dec 28, 2005 5:07 pm
- Location: Peterborough, UK
- Contact:
Glad to be of help.
You'd be much better off housing the clowns in the 8ft tank though (rather than the 62 gallon), as they will need this sort of XL sized aquarium when adult. Also, do try and get hold of some more clowns ASAP to add to your existing pair. Not only will this be more natural for them, but you will get to see a lot more of their interesting behaviours which will be somewhat supressed at the moment.
It is obviously up to you what you do re: housing your goldfish, but I cannot personally agree with keeping them in with the clown loaches. Compromising on the conditions for each means that no-one is truly comfortable. You'll need a lot of extra filtration to cope with the amount of waste the goldfish produce at the higer temps due to a speeded up metabolism.
With regards to the flow rate, you could go a lot higher than that for clown loaches. For example, my 1000 litre clown loach tank at home is filtered by 2 x Eheim Professionel 3's, rated at approx 1200 litres each, plus an Eheim Pro II 2028, rated for approx 600 litres. Added to this are 2 x 1600 litre per hour Aquaclear powerheads, and one immensely powerful Tunze Turbelle Stream 6100 pump which pushes 12000 litres per hour. The surface of the water is visibly churning and the loaches love it.
The bamboo in the display tank was bought about 4 years ago from the Wyevale garden centre that the shop is situated in (I'm really not sure if they still sell this). I would have to advise caution though, as bamboo rots down when submersed in water, which will cause problems in the average home aquarium. This isn't a problem with this tank at the shop as it is part of a centrally filtered system which receives at least 2 large water changes per day. It is near impossible to seal it with an aquarium-safe varnish too (tried that) as you cannot cover every single little bit (made difficult by the hollow segments) and once water gets in, it pushes the coating off. I actually need to try and source some more bamboo pretty soon as I feel the tank is not looking quite as good as it used to because the bamboo has rotted down quite a bit.
Emma
You'd be much better off housing the clowns in the 8ft tank though (rather than the 62 gallon), as they will need this sort of XL sized aquarium when adult. Also, do try and get hold of some more clowns ASAP to add to your existing pair. Not only will this be more natural for them, but you will get to see a lot more of their interesting behaviours which will be somewhat supressed at the moment.
It is obviously up to you what you do re: housing your goldfish, but I cannot personally agree with keeping them in with the clown loaches. Compromising on the conditions for each means that no-one is truly comfortable. You'll need a lot of extra filtration to cope with the amount of waste the goldfish produce at the higer temps due to a speeded up metabolism.
With regards to the flow rate, you could go a lot higher than that for clown loaches. For example, my 1000 litre clown loach tank at home is filtered by 2 x Eheim Professionel 3's, rated at approx 1200 litres each, plus an Eheim Pro II 2028, rated for approx 600 litres. Added to this are 2 x 1600 litre per hour Aquaclear powerheads, and one immensely powerful Tunze Turbelle Stream 6100 pump which pushes 12000 litres per hour. The surface of the water is visibly churning and the loaches love it.
The bamboo in the display tank was bought about 4 years ago from the Wyevale garden centre that the shop is situated in (I'm really not sure if they still sell this). I would have to advise caution though, as bamboo rots down when submersed in water, which will cause problems in the average home aquarium. This isn't a problem with this tank at the shop as it is part of a centrally filtered system which receives at least 2 large water changes per day. It is near impossible to seal it with an aquarium-safe varnish too (tried that) as you cannot cover every single little bit (made difficult by the hollow segments) and once water gets in, it pushes the coating off. I actually need to try and source some more bamboo pretty soon as I feel the tank is not looking quite as good as it used to because the bamboo has rotted down quite a bit.
Emma
East of the Sun, West of the Moon.
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