Fish dying

[mcaninch1971]

I am having some problem with my Marbled Loaches. The first one I bought Saturday and did a fairly standard realease procedure (let bag sit on top of the tank to acclimate the temp, release with lights off etc...) then went out for dinner. When I came back the fish was gone. I suspect it managed to jump out through a very small hole in the canopy where it meets the filter because I checked very throughly and the fish isn't there any more. I didn't see it outside but I have 2 dogs and 2 cats so that isn't surprising. Monday night I bought another and by Wednesday noon it was dead in the tank. Last night I bought a third and it is dead this morning! I am at a loss as to why. They seemed alright at the store and now I have cleaned them out. The tank is nearly new (2 months) and I have non-aggressive fish

1 adult spotted catfish
1 adult Betta (very docile)
2 Jumbo Neon Tetras (adult)
4 adult platties
1 Clown Loach (young)

The temp is in range and the other fish are fine. I change the water regularly and the filter has just been changed. I would have expected that if the conditions were not good for the marbled loach the Clown would be affected but he is growing and doing fine. There are rocks and plants (artificial) for cover so I really don't know what I am missing. Any ideas?

Thanks,
Robin

[Emma Turner]

Hi Robin, and welcome to Loaches Online.

We're going to need a bit more information to try and work out what is going on.

First off, do you know the scientific name of the Marbled Loaches? This is not a common name I have come across myself, and as common names tend to vary from country to country, the scientific name would help immensely. If you are not sure, have a look through our species index to see if you can locate the fish: http://www.loaches.com/species-index

What size tank are you keeping these fish in, and how long has the tank been set up for? What filtration are you using and when you say you 'changed the filter' can you go into a little detail about how you clean/change it and how often you do this. Any idea of water parameters (ammonia, nitrIte, nitrAte, pH, hardness)?

Do you open the fish bag during acclimatisation to allow the gradual mixing of your tank water with the water the fish has been bagged in?

Also, aside from the problem you've been experiencing with the Marbled Loaches, I'm afraid you really shouldn't be keeping one clown loach on it's own. Have a read of this, which explains their needs: http://www.loaches.com/species-index/cl ... cracanthus

Emma

[Rocco]

Also of importance: What kind of sand are you using? Coral sand is a no-no.

(I've saved a few fish from coral sand because friends didn't know)

What decor have you got? Are there any hiding places?

[mcaninch1971]

Hi

Name
Botia kubotai / Botia angelicus

10 Gallon tank with standard aquarium gravel. If the fish outgrow it we may get either a bigger tank (option), find them another home, or reduce headcount in the tank (not replacing any that pass away). Our clowns never got more than a 3 inches or so long even in my folks 80 gallon tank. The tank has been running for about 2 months and the filtration system's name I would have to check but it is one of the newer systems that hang off the back and airate as well as filter (I bought the correct replacement filter according to product specs and pre-rinsed prior to installation). The filter itself is like a grey tea bag that comes in a plastic bag. I can get the name but I don't have it committed to memory. The gravel was standard aquarium gravel from Petsmart (rinsed before put in tank) and not coral. I drain 1/3 of the water at least every two weeks (lately more frequently) and use water conditioner. With the exception of the first two fish we had have for months (Betta and catfish) that came from our old tank, the tank had time to ramp up before we added more fish in stages. I didn't open the bag to be honest, I gave it 15 minutes to acclimate to the tank temperature then I released the fish (and the water) into the tank itself. I had read after the fact about Clowns now being considered a community fish (when we got our first tank in the 80's they were considered solitary fish) and thought the second loach might be good for it. Our clown seems to be very fond of the catfish and they spend a lot of time together, he isn't reclusive and not at all skittish. The water in our area is hard but the PH level looked OK as it the temperature in the tank. Like I said all other fish including the Clown Loach have been doing well since being introduced about 6 weeks ago. The only exception has been these three Botia kubotai

Thanks.
Robin

[mikev]

Marble loach is indeed a common tradename for B.Kubotai's, I've seen several stores use it. Kubs are quite capable of jumping out from small tanks.

Robin,

Your problems are many, but the one that led to the deaths is likely the lack of acclimation. If the TDS has been changed drastically, fish would go into shock and often die within a day or two.

It is possible that you were able to get away with the first fish you got, but as you added more, the water was getting progressively worse due to nitrate accumulation and new arrivals were getting more and more powerful shocks. Checking the nitrates in the tank may be a good idea, 1/3 WC every two weeks is probably insufficient for your load. High nitrates are harmful even if they rose slowly AND 1/3 WC may be dangerous with high nitrates too, it may create a shock unless done very slowly.

It would be helpful to see all the parameters of your tank to see how healthy it is right now (ammonia, nitrites, nitrates, gh, kh, TDS)

As Emma said, one must not keep a single clown loach....but it is almost equally bad to keep a single Kub, they also have social needs. Your tetras need a larger shoal too. If you want to keep all your fish, you really should upgrade to a 55g at least right away, this is the minimal size that would allow to keep 5 clowns and 5 Kubs, and only until they grow up.

hth

[mcaninch1971]

Answers to a few questions

TopFin 10 filter

Results of the water tests
GH 120 ppm
KH 120 ppm
PH 7.5
NO2 1 ppm
NO3 20 ppm

Clearly the GH is too high so I will address my water issues first and then the issue with the general head count. I am still surprised at how the clown loach I have has done really well in these poor conditions whereas his close cousins did not and most rapidly. I was clearly incorrect in assuming the one's perceived health was a good barometer for the overall health of the tank.

Thank you all for your informative insights.

Robin

[mikev]

Hmm..good you tested.

It looks like the nitrites are the most immediate problem, 1.0 is dangerous.

The clown manages this because it was in the tank for a while. A new fish placed into the tank w/o acclimation cannot. It is likely if you were to add another clown now, it will not make it either (DON'T).

Work on nitrites first. Add a little of salt (or better meth blue) to detox the fish, then use Prime to decrease the amount of nitrites, and WC's, 25% daily until nitrites are at firm 0.

kH/GH readings are strange.

good luck.

[Diana]

Water hardness and pH readings are within the tolerance of most fish. Don't try to do anything about them.
Nitrite is the problem. Ditto: LOTS of water changes until the nitrogen situation is under control.
Nitrate is also higher than I would like to see, though some literature says that level is not a problem. Water changes will also take care of that.

This tank is too small for all these fish, and the filter is suitable only as an emergency backup. I would get an Aquaclear 30 for a 10 gallon tank, and perhaps run both of them. There will be more places for nitrifying bacteria to live, and better aeration in the tank with more water movement. This will benefit fish and bacteria.

Get a larger tank, and keep this one as a quarantine tank. The little filter will be fine with fewer fish in the tank (like just a few at a time for quarantine)

[newshound]

get a large aqua clear filter....bigger than your future tank. You can always reduce the flow from the filter.
With filteration bigger is better.
Never trust what they tell you at the LFS...double and triple check via online.